You forget the part where they hear China is bad from their friends
you mean their occupied subjects not friends.
Westerners today have so much in common with their inquisition and crusades predecessors. They replaced Christianity with Western Liberalism and they fight for it with the same zeal. Either you adopt their values and systems or you are an evil heathen who must be destroyed.
Makes even more sense once you realize that the inquisition and witch hunts were deeply intertwined with the forceful establishment of capitalism
There’s an interesting blog that analyzes the transition of political economy from medieval europe to the rise of capital through a perspective of the mechanics of occult practices. It’s pretty well thought out and compares church occult practices and their relations to “capital occultism” via social relations and rituals.
This post is about how money aka capital is transmuted to embody commodified labor value in a similar structure of social relations (“occult magic”) as the holy cracker being consecrated and transmuted to embody the flesh of Jesus Christ.
https://ianwrightsite.wordpress.com/2021/11/25/dark-eucharist-of-the-real-god/
The previous post is also quite good that covers the concept of Marx’s “real god” that is manifested via the capital imperative to continuously increase profit and accumulation.
My god the comments. You are perfectly allowed to not know much about a country. I don’t know about PRC either. But I know to keep my mouth shut on matters I don’t know about. I don’t go on parroting propaganda for those things.
It’s all about geography , if China was on the map like Australia or more like the US they wouldn’t have any problems if they had plenty of space and no neighbors.
You say this as if the US didn’t have problems with it’s neighbours and as if that stopped them from invading and bombing countries abroad. China does none of that bs even by having thrice the amount of border neighbours.
Can’t understand what you’re saying. Can you elaborate? The propaganda against China is not coming from its neighbours as far as I know.
He means the UwU occupied american subjects, Japan SK philippines, who make these statements from time to time to appease their overlord.
I was saying it’s just luck of the draw, like the US got a great position that makes it have simple easy borders.
How is it even relevant to my original comment?
What no political theory does to a mf
Geographical environment is unquestionably one of the constant and indispensable conditions of development of society and, of course, influences the development of society, accelerates or removed its development. But its influence is not the determining influence, inasmuch as the changes and development of society proceed at an incomparably faster rate than the changes and development of geographical environment. in the space of 3000 years three different social systems have been successively superseded in Europe: the primitive communal system, the slave system and the feudal system. In the eastern part of Europe, in the U.S.S.R., even four social systems have been superseded. Yet during this period geographical conditions in Europe have either not changed at all, or have changed so slightly that geography takes no note of them. And that is quite natural. Changes in geographical environment of any importance require millions of years, whereas a few hundred or a couple of thousand years are enough for even very important changes in the system of human society.
It follows from this that geographical environment cannot be the chief cause, the determining cause of social development; for that which remains almost unchanged in the course of tens of thousands of years cannot be the chief cause of development of that which undergoes fundamental changes in the course of a few hundred years
in the space of 3000 years three different social systems have been successively superseded in Europe: the primitive communal system, the slave system and the feudal system.
this is talking about the romans right?
Among others yes. The Greeks who invented democracy™️ also had a slave system.
Here’s the rest of the text (I see I missed the source)
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm
thanks.
“They shouldn’t have built their country near our military bases”
All states are bad, but if we’re talking about which ones are arguably better or worse on the world stage…
“USA USA USA, WE’RE NUMBER 1!”
Proudly colonizing for 250 years?
Seems to be what people do. America isn’t the first or the only one. People are shit is that your argument?
“All people are colonizers. Those who aren’t colonizing aren’t people” - colonizer brain in action.
That’s actually a statistical error.
Most people are alright. Power-hungry individuals responsible for colonialism are outliers and should not have been counted (or allowed to reach/stay in positions of power)
“If I don’t steal it, someone else will”
If, over the next 10 years, your country became more and more like China, would you go along with the changes? Would you have any problems with the transformation?
- modern electricity grid quickly moving away from fossil fuels
- high speed train network
- cheap fresh produce
- affordable housing
- transitioning to socialism via the development of productive forces
- strong investment in education and R&D
- quickly advancing tech in almost every sector that matters
- people-directed governance that is not subservient to capital (foreign or domestic)
- very low crime
- ecological restoration that won’t get cancelled by the next elected administration
- cheap and good quality healthcare
- bold long term vision and consistent achievement of it over time
objectively better than just about any other place
I wish my country became more like China over the next decade
but but have you considered the abstract values???
They’ve been around, as a civilization, for over 5,000 years. I’d like to think you don’t make it that long without doing a thing or 2 right.
Eh. The US has been around just as long as a civilization. If the Chinese get to claim credit for the radically different ancient predecessors to modern China, then the US can claim decent from both the ancient Native American civilizations as well as the ancient Middle Eastern civilizations that are ultimately the predecessors of many countries such as the US.
The US has been around just as long as a civilization. If the Chinese get to claim credit for the radically different ancient predecessors to modern China, then the US can claim decent from both the ancient Native American civilizations
The US is a settler colonial project that carried out an extermination campaign and genocide of hundreds of native tribes, and stole their land. Settlers have no right to claim descent from the people (they’re still) trying to exterminate. Unlike South America, there’s not even a genetic heritage; the US colonialist just killed every indigenous person they found, or put them into reservations.
Neither the PRC nor most ME countries are settler ones. The number of settler-colonial countries is tiny: the US, Canada, Israel, Australia, New Zealand, are the main ones.
The education is also non-competitive and crippling for the not-so-gifted students, yes?
Because I don’t hear about many student suicides (specifically due to stress and pressure) outside of the Asian countries.
Selective hearing, racist edition
incredible
I specifically mentioned Asian and including China.
So…Please give me now a comparison to western societies like EU countries (or US if it easier to find statistics)
C O P E
i would literally kill for half the amenities they have in China.
Oh no! You’ve poked the liberal hive now LMBO
I don’t care if they are against capitalism, I’m not simping for authoritarians.
Aah yes unlike never authoritarian capitalist governments that totally don’t break in your house to throw you in the cold bitter streets to die because you couldn’t afford rent and made the property “unprofitable”. The West has no right lecturing anyone over human rights and liberty, they could just discard them from their dictionary if only it didn’t serve as great propaganda against their class enemies.
I haven’t seen a single country that doesn’t love to divide by class.
That’s because a state is itself an instrument of class warfare first and foremost. In some places the rich wield the state against the people, and in other places the people wield the state against the rich.
What’s an authoritarian?
State > people
So what’s a non-authoritarian state?
A state the exists as a servant to a citizenry that is not limited to class or ethnicity. A state served as a safeguard to the human rights of all humans within its sovereignty.
It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated.
You just described the PRC, and notably not capitalist dictatorships, whose governments don’t represent their people / working class, but the interests of capitalists only.
You desperately need to get past this poli-sci-intro-level understanding of what states are. States are organizations of force for one class (meaning in Marxism their relationship to production) to oppress another. The USA and other liberal countries are capitalist dictatorships over workers, while the PRC is a worker’s dictatorship over capital.
Here are some resources:
So, China
I meant like can you give an example of one
Also:
It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated.
So like China
Finland
Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it’s people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide?
The country that was a Nazi ally and didn’t drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland?
Finland is an imperialist country governed by capitalists.
those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers?
Jesus, at this point why don’t you just admit that by “non-authoritarian” you just mean “white”.
The people control the state in China, though.
The communist party controls the state, and not everyone is a member.
So then every country is authoritarian, because no country is controlled by a party that every citizen is a member of.
The communist party is a working class party. What exactly do you think the purpose of a party is? And what do you think class is? You seem confused on each.
No just one out of every 14 people, which you may notice is many thousands of times more democratic than any of the western so-called democracies by percentage.
So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don’t really count as “opposition parties”) that is legally allowed in their country?
In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct?
They seem to be doing a pretty good job
we agree that authoritarianism is bad
No. We disagree that “authoritarianism” is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it “badguyism”
authoritarians
Thought terminating cliche used by the unintelligent and uninformed to avoid reckoning with reality beyond vibes.
“non authoritarian governments are known to implement mass firewalls and online surveillance”
Literally every government with the capability to control information is doing that, and frankly the rise of bleach-injecting covid denialist flat earth tradwife inflluencers has proven China right to do so.
From Merriam-Webster
1 relating to, or favoring blind submission to [authority].
2 relating to, or favoring a concentration of power in a leader or an elite not constitutionally responsible to the people
i love that it has the caveat in the second definition abt a constitution. like, no guys, totslly not us, look at this definition we created to show how we arent authoritarian
So like, objectively not China? Because their ruling party consists of 90 million members and they’re constantly debating shit, and enjoy an incredibly high satisfaction rate among non-party members?
104 milliion last I checked.
consists of 90 million members
It’s been over 100 million since 2024
Would a non-aurhoritarian government be able to institute a one-child policy like China?
Given the vagueness of your definition, yes absolutely.
Yes, of course they could. Individual people make the decision to practice birth control every day, and a vast democratic assembly of millions voted in by their peers can make that decision as well. Meanwhile in the US, reproductive policy is dictated by nine unelected ministers: an objectively far less democratic process, yet our media never describes the US government as “authoritarian.” Because it’s not a term meant to usefully delineate important differences in form and function, it’s a vibes based epithet meant to be wielded against geopolitical enemies of capitalism. It’s a thought-terminating cliche, deployed highly selectively against anti-imperialist societies to artificially cast proletarian authority as uniquely evil while tacticly normalizing the authority of billionaires and corporations.
In practice, authoritarianism is when you are objectively more democratic in function and policy than western countries, but commit the cardinal sin of using that authority to safeguard your sovereignty, people and resources from the inhumanity of global capitalism.
Every country should be blocking the US surveillance giants, its extremely naive for countries to be letting facebook, twitter, reddit, and google operate unhindered.
There’ no such thing as a “non-authoritarian” state or other myths like the tooth-fairy, but even if they existed, then it’d be hard to argue that letting the US surveillance state operate freely within your borders is somehow “non-authoritarian”. The US is more likely than any other country to use the intelligence they’ve gained learned to harm you physically. See the Phoenix Program.
You clearly don’t understand the purpose of the firewall and the online surveillance is no more than any other country but at least our government is accountable to us as opposed to owned by capital.
Are they accountable to you or to party members?
To us. There’s a reason that even from Harvard’s research the government has a 95+% approval.
Direct elections reach the township and county levels where voters choose deputies to local people’s congresses. These grassroots deputies constitute the overwhelming majority of all deputies nationwide. Advancement to higher levels requires proven service at lower rungs, ensuring every national deputy has worked up from local material conditions and remains accountable to the masses below.
Grassroots legislative liaison stations and community consultation channels ensure mass input shapes policy at every stage, making democracy a daily practice not a periodic (meaningless) ritual. Whole-process people’s democracy embeds consultation and pilot programs into governance: policies are tested locally, refined through mass feedback, then scaled nationally. This grounds decisions in what we want and need.
All 55 ethnic minorities hold guaranteed representation in the NPC. Farmers and labourers comprise roughly 15% of deputies while professionals and technical personnel make up the remainder.
Even besides all that if you just look at what the Chinese government does as opposed to those owned by capital. Mass poverty alleviation, anticorruption at all levels, massive investment in socially profitable but monetarily unprofitable public services, deflating the housing bubble. These are not the actions of a government only looking out for a select few.
And also the CPC has over 100million members since 2024 that 1 in 14 people are party members not to mind those who aren’t but are active in consulting due to their position such as most engineers and scientists.
You should be skeptical of any poll or survey that presents that level of agreement on anything with that breadth of societal implications.
How do you square the whole Hong Kong protests in regards to the extradition laws? Or the aggression towards Taiwan?
Just because the anglosphere is a socioeconomic nightmare realm of genocide, immiseration and omnipresent propaganda where everyone is at each other’s throats doesn’t mean everywhere else is too.
What you’re saying is you want to be suspicious of data that paints other places in a better light than us, because it makes you feel bad. You then rationalize this desire as “wisdom” while continuing to apply it selectively against societies your government has told you to hate.
Define authoritarian. The PRC spent decades of anti-colonial struggle defeating British imperialists, Japanese imperialists, feudal reactionaries, and then US imperialists. Do you know more than them about how to defeat vicious empires, “non-authoritarianly”?
they should’ve just prayed and cattered to the imperialists like India.
As malcolm x once said “The West doesn’t not have any love for China but it respects it, while they love India but they do not respect it.”
These very same jerks would love China if it was just another uwu Japan/SKorea hosting US troops.
Expecting others to adhere to your cultural and political norms is authoritarianism. Not willing to learn or tolerate differences is bigotry.
“Simping” here meaning “viewing with anything less than total antipathy”
Lol America, land of the free, they literally arrested anyone who said they were a communist and confiscated your gold because they said it was illegal.
Yet China is frowned upon.
Flash news, America is authoritarian
But which countries are not authoritarian, and why?
These things exist in degrees.
Fuck Donald J Trump. I hope the rat bastard dies shitting himself inside out.
Try talking like that about Xi on Chinese social media.
That was supposed to be criticism?
Liberals believe hating something is critique. That’s why they claim Lemmy.ml bans people for “criticizing” socialist countries, when in reality their “critique” is just saying “fuck xyz.”
Mostly their critique, as you said, is just plain insulting. Often it is not to an ideology or a system, but a person or people. Like the person above just insulted not the US, not capitalism, not western imperialism, but Trump, a single person. What is even the point?
It’s the type of unseriousness that results from not engaging with real political activism, and not engaging with socialist theory.
Whataboutism.
The working classes use state authority for pro-social policy and to prebent capitalists from gaining political power, as opposed to capitalist authority for pro-profit policy and to prevent the working classes from gaining political power. Authority has a class dynamic, analysis without class erases the core distinction.
Because America are the thoughtful, non violent democrats, who represent the people, and never start illegal wars?
This is still happening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China
So let’s play a game. The USA is bad, and China is bad. Your turn.
Your assessment of China is based on state department propaganda
And yours is based on???
Are you saying you don’t believe in the treatment of wighurs
And you believe this is the truth.
The burden of proof is on you. I can only provide context for the claims that have been raised. If you look at the sources they’re all western
You believe in a genocide with literally no single proof
Are you saying you don’t believe in the white genocide going on in south africa right now?
Are you saying you don’t believe that Hamas beheaded 40 babies?
It’s spelled “Uyghurs”, by the way
Nice non answer
It’s only a non-answer if you have a sub-canine ability to process patterns
Do you deny that Saddam Hussein was building weapons of mass destruction and had to be toppled?
“Your argument doesn’t count because I have no response to it!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5j2GcWZEbM
here have an uyghur talking to a propagandized westerner that thinks they know more about their own people.
Thx for that lol. Incredibly satisfying to watch.
This is still happening
Yeah? Got any primary sources that aren’t a decade old?
I have not stake in this, but here you go: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-uyghur-uighur-turkey-oppression-rcna97238. I took one at random that was semi-recent and look somewhat relevant.
Just look at the date of the references on Wikipedia and you will find plenty.
This shit is so tiring.
NBC is pretty shit that almost every hyperlink is to another nbc news but one of those hyperlinks go to Safeguard Defenders and other go to Amnesty International and both direct to a report made by OHCHR which just cite Adrian Zenz and his propaganda made by Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation.
Holy shit is just impossible to find a source that doesn’t have bullshit propaganda. For any lib reading this, if a news source is citing a propaganda piece they are not writing news, they are writing propaganda.
They’re not even against capitalism. They only pay lip service to anti-capitalism.
This must go so hard if you know literally fucking nothing about China.
Wrong.
Is China State Capitalist?
- The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee.
- Workplace democracy in action in the CPC.
- Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values?
- Didn’t China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn’t it liberalize its economy? Is China’s drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies?
- Is the CPC committed to communism?
- The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook
- The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism?
- Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism?
- Isn’t China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn’t it fully planned like the USSR was?
- Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries.
- Roderic Day - China has billionaires.
- What is socialism with Chinese characteristics (SWCC)?
- How is SWCC not revisionist? How is it any different from Gorbachev’s market reforms?, 2
- Domenico Losurdo - is China state capitalist?, 2
I’m honestly impressed at the effort you put into this comment. It’ll be a while before I read through all these links, so I’m just gonna save this comment and come back to it occasionally.
Lol Uyghurs amiright? 😂
You are doing genocide denial when you claim that genocide can happen without being accompanied by mass death. Genocide is the crime of crimes because it always involves mass slaughter of innocent people, to bring about their end. The invention of “”“cultural genocide”“” without any of the accompanying mass violence effectively whitewashes genocide as a concept.
I’m genuinely undereducated here, not an op…
Accepting all that, that’s still essentially colonization, no?
Is there nuance I’m missing here? China’s seemingly codified cultural repression genuinely makes it hard for me to consider supporting them, whether or not they advance the cause of the average worker
They also don’t do cultural genocide, look at videos of random tourists visiting Xinjiang and you’ll see some locals speaking Uyghur, you’ll see mosques, museums, traditional Uyghur food, etc. The previous repression was meant to curve terrorism, it seems to have worked, and things have relaxed afterwards. I don’t see how any of this fits the picture of colonialism.
🤔
Lol lets worry about a CIA fake genocide op instead of the real ones happening like in Gaza amiright fellow zionazis? 😂
It’s possible to simultaneously think there are issues with the Chinese government and U.S. government. You could mention 3 June 1989 I’m China or Epstein files in the U.S.
issues with the Chinese government
name one
Weegir tinymen squared free the dolly llama
My issue is they have not invited me to become a chinese citizen. Not so great now are they 😤
If you have to go back forty years to find an issue with China, that’s incredibly complimentary.
3 June 1989 I’m China
on, tinyman square, lol
it’s funny how the image of tanks crushing people is more solidified in the minds of westerners than what happened, which there is video proof of, which is none of that and also the tanks leaving
Its like comparing the Federation and the Empire from elite dangerous lol.
Empire elitists always talking about how bad the Federation is because of the insane capitalist abuse of power, and billions of humans subjected to horrific conditions.
And then Federation liberals talking about how the Empire literally has legalized slavery and a monarchy that runs on the death of humans.
Although technically there’s also the stereotypical Asian CEO who has a 15% discount on all ships and modules in his systems, so I guess that’s probably the successor to Ali Express lol.
That all being said, the post above this is an article trying to explain how China plating 78 billion trees was a bad idea lmao.
Star Wars and other movie tropes. This is theory for some people. Absolutely infantile.
No you see the USA is Snape, China is Voldemort
I’m dying
